Thumper Club Forum
Technical => Bike Problems/Questions => Topic started by: xbally on June 14, 2024, 08:39:36 AM
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OK, so I've changed the oil, squirted some 2T oil down the plug hole, put some 2T in the fuel, checked for a spark but.......the kickstart while partially turning the engine over under compression (with the plug in) doesn't appear to be fully turning the engine over . I don't think it's slipping at the kickstart shaft and will easily turn the engine over with the plug out.
I'm guessing the clutch maybe slipping? I don't know anything about these automatic clutches or how to adjust them and wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction.
I'm armed with a can of Easy Start but that won't work unless I can get the engine properly spinning.
In the old days when I was a lot younger I would have tried bump starting but I don't even know if this is possible with a semi automatic transmission. The sight of a 60 something pushing his nearly as old small motor bike is not something I'm too keen on.
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Morning Martin,
Please send me your email via a PM and I will send you a workshop manual for the ST50-70's 1969-1982, via WeTransfer that'll save you cloggy up your email account.
Good health, Bill
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Morning Bill.
PM sent.
Many thanks.
Martin
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Aye Martin, two to you.
Bill
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Thanks for your help Bill. ;D
Pushed it up and down the drive in top with the plug out and bike now turns over more readily on the kick start with plug in.
Still not firing though even with Easy Start.
Looks like a carb strip and clean and maybe ultrasonic bath and rebuild might be called for.
Got the wheels off and am going to local bike shop for new tyres and tubes and a battery. Some parts ordered from UK based online store to brighten up corroded items.
It's cleaning up pretty well though. Will post more pics when it's back on its wheels - hopefully next week.
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Reading through my back issues of Classic Motorcycle Mechanics I see Mark Haycock is restoring an ST70 , the same model as mine, and he had exactly the same problems with the clutch / kickstart. I'm hoping I won't have to strip my engine but his articles are very helpful should I need to do so.
I'm now waiting to get the tyres and tubes back from QB Motorcycles which is my local shop where I try to frequent as much as I can as I think we would be the poorer for it without the choice of a local shop.
They've offered me a discount on Michelins and free fitment which will save me the hassle of struggling to fit the tyres and tubes. I'm given to understand the split rims make tyre fitting easier but am wary of corrosion and associated problems you can get with these older bikes.
Having removed the wheels and looked into a few other potential jobs I'm encouraged to find whoever has been in there before has lubricated parts before fitting them back together.
I had to re-make the battery wiring connectors yesterday and the horn now works but so far none of the lights do. Got to check the bulbs aren't all blown as I seem to recall this can happen with these basic 6 volt systems.
When I re-fit the wheels I can resume my efforts to try to get the engine running which may involve stripping the carb and more kick / bump starting.
Bill has very helpfully emailed me the HOnda workshop manual so I have this to consider as well :)
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All sounds promising Martin on the whole. I’m starting to get a little excited for you 🤞👍
Cheers, Michael
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Thanks Michael. I've got the rear wheel back with a new Michelin but the front was punctured so I'm waiting for a new tube
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Got the wheels and new tyres fitted.
Am now turning my attention to getting it running.
The clutch plates are stuck and will need stripping and probably replacing so I'll need to order some parts and a special toll to undo the clutch nut.
In the meantime here are a few more pics...
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That looks as cool 😎 as you like doesn’t it, scrubbed up really well Martin. Bet you can’t wait to give it a spin eh👍
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Thanks Michael.
Got to sort out a leaking carb / fuel tap next. It appears to be cheaper to buy a new re-pro carb form a reputable source rather than try to cure the ills of the OE equipment so that's the latest track I'm currently going down.
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I bought a cheap (£15 or so) Chinese copy of a Keihin that I fitted to the sadly departed Tri-Greeves. It seemed to work quite well although I had to modify the mounting flange as the carb bore wasn't in line with the mounting stud holes.
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Yes thanks for posting that up Ian. From enquiries I've made the copy of the OE Keihin has proved to be a cheap but useable replacement. The supplier reckons to have sold over 200 of them .I am a bit irritated though as I spent £25 on a Keyster rebuild kit which does not contain some of the spares I need to repair the original carb. Had I done more investigation beforehand I would have discovered the Honda carb repair kit contains everything I think I would have needed to repair the original. I'll keep the original carb and Keyster kit as I'm sure if I am going to keep the bike they will be needed sooner or later.
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Ok so the repro carb arrived today and I bolted it on, ran the bike up and down the drive in gear with the plug out and manged to free off the clutch so I could kick the bike over with the plug in and....the engine started ,ticks over and sounds quiet....result :D
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Nice one Martin
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Thanks Kev. Next job is to try to get the electrics all working. At the moment the horn and rear light work but not too much else. I also need to order a few more minor spares such as a new carb to airbox rubber, maybe a few 6v bulbs and check the tappets etc, etc.......As it's a historic vehicle as soon as it's sorted after some basic final safety checks I can venture out on the road which should prove interesting. I shan't be going on any main roads though -just intend to keep to the county lanes round here.
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I've worked out with some help from my bike mechanic mate that the neutral light switch is booked so I ordered a new one.
The gearing is way too low so again with my mate's help we've worked out what should be more useable on the road and the parts have been ordered from the online specialist.
In the meantime I've resprayed the magneto cover and hope to resolve the remaining electrical maladies so I can go for a proper test ride.
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Sorry fooked not booked. The screen on my phone is so small I can't fully read the text of what I'm posting...
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All sounding pretty promising Martin. Best of luck with the first spin
Cheers, Michael
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Thanks for the encouragement Michael.
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Parts have arrived.
New neutral light switch has restored power to the indicator bulb. Now I've got to look into why the headlight / pilot / and brake lights aren't working.
Also got to fit the higher geared sprockets and chain which I hope will make the plot more rideable at country lane speeds. If this works as anticipated I shall be investigating fitting indicators. The wiring already seems to be present. I'll also need a rear view mirror - both steps essential safety features in my mind these days.
Baby steps. If it all goes wrong then I'll consider selling it on .I'm very interested in getting something British if I do but we'll see.
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Aye xbally,
Have a scan of this Amazon link, I am sure that you will find something to your liking.
Amazon_motorcycle_indicator_selection (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=motorcycle+indicators+led&crid=19IIRM1FVW4SH&sprefix=motorcycle+indicators%2Caps%2C172&ref=nb_sb_ss_pltr-data-refreshed_2_21)
I have seen a set of the small round type fitted to a Velocette.
Good health, Bill
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I use a local place (in Redditch so not far from you Martin). They have a good selection of Lucas type indicators as well as various others.
https://www.classicbikeshop.co.uk/electrical-lighting/lighting/turn-signal-indicator.html
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Thanks both.
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Well the gearing's been changed and another test ride undertaken but I've come to the reluctant conclusion this bike ain't for me which is a shame but although it's from my era and has many attributes it's just too small and under powered for the use I envisaged for it. That's a shame as Ive enjoyed the re-commissioning process. I think I might put it up on eBay unless I can part exchange it for something more suitable
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Yes, that is a shame Martin but at least you’ve enjoyed the time you’ve had with it. Maybe part exchange it for a GROM 😉
Still not most powerful of machines but will top out at about 60mph (downhill, with a tail wind😁) plus they’re not that small physically once you’re sat on it. Just a thought, oh and approx 180miles to a gallon.
Keep us posted on any developments 👍
Cheers, Michael
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Some years ago I restored an NSU Quickly with the vague hope that I could hang it on the back of our car so I could pop off to the boulangerie on our French caravan holidays.
I found the same as you Martin (although possibly even more so) as despite a careful rebuild of the engine it was unable to tackle even the skightest incline. A shame as it as a nicely built machine.
(https://www.iansoady.org.uk/NSU/images/right.jpg)
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Thanks for the replies........
Yes I enjoyed working on it and its size is both good and bad. It was great not having to worry about the weight of the plot and it falling.
I've only got limited space and was able to literally manhandle it to the back of my workshop or at the front of my sports car in the garage.
As alluded to on this forum I've been looking at the Triumph 400. I've wanted a Triumph for some years and in fact my first (field) bike was a Tigercub.
While there are plenty of Hinckley models in my price range and I've always liked the Speed Triple I think the reality these days is they'll be too heavy. No point in the Bonneville derivatives as I have an Enfield 650 Interceptor and have always struggled a bit with the weight getting it in and out of the workshop.
I'd love a T160 but too heavy and expensive now and have looked at the T140 but worry about reliability.
So if I can sell the Monkey and possibly one of my other bikes I may well test ride a 400 but I don't think there's a local dealer. The one up the road has just gone bust unfortunately.
Watch this space but plans could well change on a whim!
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Martin,
Interesting to read about your latest project and the upshot of it all. If a bike doesn’t grab you, then it’s “fait accompli” as they say. We’ve all been there.
Streetbike has ceased trading then. That’s a bit of a shocker. The trouble is that the move to big dealerships invariably means there are fewer of them, and that often means significant travel.
Anyway, good luck. Keep us up to speed on your next move.
Kev
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Well Martin, Having owed 5 triumphs, 3 speed triples, from the first of the bug eyed 850 then a 995 then a 1050. They were all fantastic bikes, especially the 1050 truly brilliant bike. However I was riding a lot faster in them days. Then also owed a 660 trident and now a 900 speed twin. I’ve never had anything but brilliant service etc from triumph and the dealership I use locally. ( Phillip Youles triumph Blackburn)
I absolutely love the 900 speed twin I now have, although it does feel quite heavy when pushing around my driveway etc. I would love a test ride on one of the 400’s like Ian has bought but not quite ready to trade in the speed twin having only had it a year.
Keep us posted on any developments, especially if you do decide to go for a triumph 400
Best of luck with the decision making 👍
Cheers, Michael
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Now that Streetbike has gone bust, I did hear a whisper that Triumph were "actively looking" for a replacement dealership to replace Streetbike in a similar area. It may well be BS but I can only say I have had nothing but good service from Triumph whatever bike I have had.
BTW, I love my Speed400 very light and manoeuvrable compared to my previous Street Twin. I know I had original iffy software which has now been updated and (fingers crossed, touch wood etc etc etc) it has been superbly reliable. Just a few thoughts.....
On a very slight downside, I see the price of the Speed 400 & 400X have both gone up by £200 since I bought mine.
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Martin. Royal Enfield have just brought out a new 400 model. Water cooled so not an Himalayan in fancy clothes. It’s called the Guerrilla. Looks nice. Thought maybe if you have a local Enfield dealer near by might be worth a look/test ride.
Cheers, Michael
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Thank you all for the info , comments and encouragement.
Michael - I saw the new RE yesterday in an email I got from MCN. We do have a local dealer (QB) who I try to support. In fact I got the Michelins for the ST70 from them as well as a few other spares and consumables. I was in there on Tuesday buying 6v bulbs and the like and they always have plenty of demonstrators and new models to tempt prospective buyers.
I've been looking at reviews of the Speed 400 and at the moment this is where I'm inclined to go.
I'll need to sell at least one of my bikes-the ST70-being the obvious one. I had constant irritating low speed problems with my Ducati Monster 750 in the almost 4 years since I've owned it and this would be the other bike to let go maybe. It's a shame as it's such a brilliant bike on the back roads- very light for a 750, sticks to the road like glue and enough power for overtaking. I was looking online and there's a group - Pidcocks I think it was - with both a Triumph and Ducati franchise so I wonder if I could trade in the Monster for a Speed 400? Just a thought.
On paper the 400 Triumph seems ideal for my changing ( aging) needs.
Like you Michael I don't ride at the speeds I used to (thankfully).
I put the ST up on Ebay so will wait to see what happens.
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I bought my Tiger 955i from a Triumph dealer in Stratford but don't know whether they're still around. I have to say their workshop was dreadful: "They all do that sir" being the typical response to problems I identified and which were definitely there. Some I believe actually caused by them.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds pretty typical of some of the motor cycle trade!
I seem to recall years ago there was a Triumph dealer in Redditch. A friend bought a new T955i from them with a good discount IIRC.
The nearest I can find at the moment is in Tamworth but I think there may be a tie up with Sutton Motorcycles (Honda dealers) in Bromsgrove?
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Martin. Just spotted this and not too far….. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202407201975981?sort=distance&advertising-location=at_bikes&page=11&postcode=Wr158tb&seller-type=private&fromsra
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Thanks Kev, that bike looks ideal.....and as you say not a million miles away and in a nice part of the world.
Update on the ST70 : only one interested party who has made an offer so far which we are still negotiating on but it doesn't look very hopeful at the moment .He says he's looking at other bikes which of course he's perfectly entitled to.
My intention was to book a test ride at the Triumph dealer in Stratford upon Avon but I haven't yet as I want to have at least sold one of my bikes before I do. After what Ian has said I don't think I'd be inclined to buy from there anyway.
I know it's a waiting game and patience is a virtue!
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Here's another......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365039509508?itmmeta=01J47P33RQG4F8VXER58TGADJX&hash=item54fe0ce004:g:BAUAAOSwxlxmqLVs&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwJxNFbjo%2Fx89iR58N0niyDXTKYmpCWV7DD4NlJ95PZMyFZ65r4sTmKhRFagp5KjaIfO13ftyfiB%2FRHiEYlEB62Kqm3mh4orncmcUjofgIB2WAo4hvd8bX7II5fEX3dg07NVDKvZRDDxEaLPrBFnfRvVfcZ9f6B1TrvBt8thoQP3xajegCxNsN7EXCOsrpVW1%2BkTu%2Fatf%2BeenunDYD7buFvqJzb0M9Dis5XzJi%2FmHC%2FtzftgFG%2B4uk7PkSYKHz4InMQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7a8jPahZA&edge=0
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Shame he’s not looking for a 1970’s ST70 Martin instead of a classic 125. May be worth an ask. Don’t ask you don’t get. Or so I’m told 🤷???
Cheers, Michael
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Well I've just called in at QB Motorcycles my local Royal Enfield dealer and registered my interest in having a test ride on the Guerrilla 450which is due out shortly. They have offered me a reasonable part ex on the ST70 so if I can't sell for more privately I should be able to do a deal when I've sold one of my other bikes. I'm still interested in the Triumph so I will see what happens.
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Well I've just called in at QB Motorcycles my local Royal Enfield dealer and registered my interest in having a test ride on the Guerrilla 450which is due out shortly. They have offered me a reasonable part ex on the ST70 so if I can't sell for more privately I should be able to do a deal when I've sold one of my other bikes. I'm still interested in the Triumph so I will see what happens.
My fingers are crossed Martin, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the new 450 Enfield if you have a test ride on one
Cheers, Michael
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No developments I'm afraid. No movement on the ST70 and still waiting to hear from QB regarding the test ride of new RE model.
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Surprised to hear that Martin. I would have thought there’d be folk queuing up to buy the ST 🤔🤔 fingers crossed 🤞
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Thanks Michael. Well nearly a 1000 views and over 50 watchers but no real interest. Looking at prices they vary widely. Some are asking over £5K for apparently pretty much the same bike whereas one sold on Fleabay in an apparently similar condition for about £1800. I hear the used bike market is all over the place so it may be a reflection on that. Who knows.
Just as a distraction I was out on my Ducati Monster on Friday when one of the silencers fell off! Couldn't find it despite looking everywhere and walking the dog down the offending lanes and trying to avoid being run off the road by passing motorists!
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ST70 now sold.......
Haven't heard anything about the new RE 450 demonstrator and am getting fed up with the inaction so I'm going to look at a 250 Crusader locally this afternoon. It's a trip down memory lane for me as I ran one as a second bike in the heady summer of 1976 when they were 15 year old runarounds that could be bought for next to nothing.
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Good news on the ST70.
That Crusader looks very nice indeed. Was it as good as it appeared??
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Yes. Excellent news regarding the ST70 being sold Martin 👍
Hope the 250 crusader pans out well for you 👍
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Thanks.
Yes the Crusader looks lovely.
It was rebuilt completely by someone who had a collection of them.
Its only covered 10 miles since the rebuild so needs fettling and running in. The PO has had it for about 16 months but hasn't ridden it.
Took a gamble riding it the 5 miles back here after adding it to my policy. I don't know if it was the fuel, gummed up carb or flat battery but it didn't want to pull uphill. Also haven't ridden a right foot change bike since about 1980!
When I got it home the carb flange nuts weren't very tight so that might account for the choke needing to be on!
Here are a few pics :
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More
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Aye Martin, a bonnie looking bike.
Reads as though all the usual "rebuild" gremlins are about. Every nut, bolt, seal etc needs a looksee. Dinnae over tighten those AMAL flange nuts, it's only a pot metal body and will warp as soon as look at you, if tweeked too much! :-[ Hope you can fettle it and then enjoy it.
I suspect parts are easier and cheaper to obtain than for the ST70?
Good health, Bill
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Thanks Bill.
Parts for the ST70 were in surprisingly plentiful supply.
I can't find much yet on the Hitchcock's site for the Crusader. Well no that's not strictly true as quite a few of the the standard parts seem to be available having looked a bit further.
Yes I fear there may be quite a bit of shaking down to do..............
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I was reading one of Rick Parkington's old columns and he opined that any old British bike will be a project and need at least 6 months' fettling! I have to agree from my experience except that if it's Japanese then a year might be more realistic.
It is a nice looking bike Martin. A pal of mine had one back in the 60s and it took us both on several camping trips. The folly of youth.....
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I have to say my GPZ500 restoration went largely without too much trouble but they are not what you would call a classic in the traditional sense-liquid cooled, mono shock, lots of plastics alloy wheels albeit a twin.
Today I've ordered a set of mirrors from Hitchcocks for the Crusader . I can't believe how vulnerable I felt turning right even doing the police riders "life saver".
I've done 2 bursts of 5 miles each around where I live. Nipping up the carb flange nuts (although not too tight Bill) seems to have improved the running slightly although it could be just psychological.
I've fitted an in line fuel filter and checked the output of fuel from the tap. I whipped out the plug (which was a bit sooty)cleaned and re-gapped it and re-checked for a spark and ordered a new one just in case from Mr. H.
I also charged the battery -did I say it's had a 12 volt conversion? I'm sticking initially to largely flat roads where I can load up the new engine only lightly. As it hopefully loosens up I'll give the engine bit more work to do.
I'd already got a re-pro copy of Pitman's Book of the RE250 so my bedtime reading will be on setting up the Monobloc and checking the ignition timing.....
Some woman pulled across me today . I'm not exceeding 35 mph at the moment but nevertheless the front brake was somewhat lacking-I hope the shoes (twin leaders) will bed in as well.When I finally tried the rear drum I was pleasantly surprised how good it was.
I thought I would struggle with the right foot gearchange but it's the one up and 3 down pattern that I have to keep repeating in my head - down for up and up for down!
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Sounds like you’ve found a bike you like Martin, excellent news. It also sounds like it might keep the old grey matter working a bit too, which IMVHO is never a bad thing. Really glad you seem to be getting along with it and wish you many happy S’miles riding it 👍👍
Ps.... certainly looks nice in the photos
Cheers, Michael
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I have to say you're a braver man then I Martin to ride it home, even if only a few miles. Every bike I buy has at least one thing making it dangerous. You're all bored with the little Yam - although I think I'm getting there with that - but the Bouzouki had a throttle cable so frayed it wouldn't return and a clutch cable that needed a gorilla's strength to operate. Weirdly someone had fitted one of those "effort reducers" to it. Making the correct cable with a liner reduced the effort to manageable.
The bloke I bought it off had done 6,000 miles in the last couple of years, borne out by MoTs. Some folk just have no mechanical sympathy, although I'm sure in our younger days we've all ridden things we shouldn't. But this chap was into his 60s at least......
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I'm not a big RE fan but I do appreciate how much time and effort that has already gone into this bike already. Hope you get it "sorted" asap so you can enjoy the ride. 🤞👍🏍?
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I've put a few more gentle miles on it over the last few days and with a little fettling it's already running a lot better.
Ian (soady) I visited Classic British Bike Shop in Redditch today and bought a few parts and some 20/50 classic oil. I'm sure I shall be going back as well as to Hitchcocks in the coming months.
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I've found the classic bike shop very helpful and being local is useful. I believe it's run by the son of a bloke who ran an old style shop in Redditch. Hitchcock too are good and I get my Amal bits from them. A nice run out as well but I don't know whether they've resumed counter service.
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Yes I believe it was Curley Rogers. I sold my Continental GT 535 to someone who knew him.
I've never been to Hitchcock's on the bike , if I go we usually take the car as my wife likes to come. As you say it's a nice run. We avoid the M42 and go through Barnet Green Wythall and Earlswood Lakes.