Author Topic: Old fashioned kit proven better!  (Read 974 times)

guest18

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Old fashioned kit proven better!
« on: March 12, 2010, 10:44:05 PM »
There was some talk a while ago about the experiment to produce a replica of the clothing worn by Mallory for his 1924 Everest expedition, the current kit manufacturers should have some red faces based on the account below of the on site tests...  ;D

Extract from the BBC Website - Outdoor Clothing used by Mallory and Irvine.The results of a unique experiment on Mount Everest confirm that the outdoor clothing of the 1924 climbers George Mallory and Sandy Irvine would not have prevented them from reaching the summit, as many had believed.

The findings are a step closer to proving the men could have reached the top, 29 years before Tenzing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary.

Over the past few weeks, outdoor clothing specialist and climber Graham Hoyland has been putting the old-style outdoor clothing worn on the fateful Mallory expedition to the ultimate field test on the world's highest mountain.

Wearing replica outdoor clothing made from gabardine, wool, cotton and silk, he wanted to disprove the common myth that the 1920s climbers were ill-equipped to reach the summit.
"This is just another brick in my wall of evidence," Hoyland said.

Following the discovery of Mallory's body on the north face of Everest in 1999, a team of forensic textile experts from Lancaster, Leeds, Southampton and Derby universities embarked on an experiment to recreate the outdoor clothing from samples of Mallory's which had been preserved in ice.
 
 
Side by side
The three-year project, lead by Professor Mary Rose and Mike Parsons, revealed that Mallory's outdoor clothing was highly effective at providing protection at high altitude.
The layered natural materials used to construct the garments were found to be excellent at trapping air next to the skin.

The outer layer of gabardine was hardwearing and water-resistant yet breathable. But the outdoor clothing was also lighter than modern gear - the lightest ever to be used on Everest.
Parsons said: "The results stand out as a challenge for future outdoor clothing innovators because Mallory's clothing and footwear was 20% and 40% lighter respectively."
The results of Hoyland's in-the-field experiment have now confirmed the experts' investigations.
Wearing the replica outdoor clothing for two days on Everest, Hoyland tested the suit alongside the expedition leader who was wearing a typical modern down suit.
 
 
A good feel
"I immediately found the underclothes warm to put on, whereas the modern polypropylene outdoor clothing feels cold and clammy," said Hoyland.
"When exposed to a cutting wind blowing off the main Rongbuk glacier, I found the true value of the Gabardine outer layers. These resisted the wind and allowed the eight layers beneath to trap warmed air between them and my skin.

It has been a three-year project to create the replicas
"We both got too hot working on the glacier so we felt that Mallory's outdoor clothing would have been more than adequate to climb to the top in, although it would be hard to survive a bivouac near the summit."
Hoyland also discovered that the outdoor clothing were more comfortable to wear than modern day gear.
"Like most mountaineers, I am used to synthetic outdoor clothing: polypropylene underclothes and outer fleeces which are bought pre-sized, off the shelf and never quite fit properly.
The Mallory clothing was made to fit me.
"This meant that the shirts didn't ride up, exposing my kidneys when I stretched, and the whole ensemble felt of a piece when walking. Instead of feeling bulky, the layers fitted very well."
 
 
Freedom of Movement
But the main difference for Hoyland was the level of movement the outdoor clothing allowed - which can mean the difference between life and death when at high altitude.
"The patented Pivot sleeve of the jacket enabled me to lift my arm to full extent when cutting steps with an ice axe without displacing the warm layers of air. If you can reach above your head and climb faster, you could get to the summit before nightfall."

Mallory's outdoor clothing did have one major drawback, as Hoyland discovered.

Mallory and Irvine probably wore their clothes for the duration
"The immediate problem was fastening buttons with cold fingers. I suspect Mallory and Irvine would have put the outdoor clothing on at Advanced Base Camp and left them on for the duration. Fly buttons may have been left undone as there are enough layers to interleave."
But Hoyland says: "All the other climbers thought the jacket was stylish and wanted to know where they could buy their own versions of the outdoor clothing!"
 
 

guest868

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2010, 11:37:38 AM »
Thanks for posting that smudge. A good read.
Any pics?

Andy M

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 12:31:20 PM »
My home knitted kit plus silk and wax cotton proved itself on the elefant too IMHO, I was only using the heated jacket on the higher sections. Horrible Gherkin etc. have a lot to learn, especially in terms of the collars, cuffs, cut at the shoulder etc.

The thing with buttons is certainly true, the poppers on the drizabone are a pig at times. There is also the factor of wear, my silk inner gloves are basically trashed after something like 100 hours use, it's a PITA to take them off to say mess with coil wires (so you don't), but they have a lot less mechanical strength than wool pile.

What I'd like is professionally made version of the old kit using zips, velcro and the odd bit of wool pile or PVC where appropriate.

Anyone know where this all went pear shaped? At some point (1960's?) someone obviously though nice dayglo PVC and Goretex filled with loft insulation were superior despite the weight and general ****ness.

Andy

guest18

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 08:46:52 PM »
Thanks for posting that smudge. A good read.
Any pics?

I'm afraid not immediately as it was a link from a link, and tbh I've not got the time just now to do a proper search, but if you google Mallory and clothing I'm sure you could find some to post here for us all ;-)

guest868

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 09:30:16 PM »
I shall flex my GoogleFu-



Who did what?

Lancaster - Professor Mary Rose at Lancaster University Management School's Institute for Entrepreneurship and Enterprise Development (IEED) and Mike Parsons, former MD of Karrimor International, co-owner of OMM Ltd and honorary IEED fellow, had the idea for this project four years ago while conducting research for their book Invisible on Everest: Innovation and the Gear Makers (published in 2003). The book provides a comprehensive study of innovation in clothing and equipment for mountaineering and exploration, but Mary's and Mike's research produced questions about the viability of outdoor clothing made with natural fibres.

Southampton - Amber Rowe at the Textile Conservation Centre of the University of Southampton analysed the original textiles recovered from Everest to determine what the clothes were originally made from and used textile analysis to recreate the patterns used for Mallory's clothing, including early twentieth century pivot sleeves.

Leeds - Dave Brook and his colleagues in the Performance Clothing Research Centre at Leeds University's School of Textiles, who worked with Sir Ranulph Fiennes and Dr Mike Stroud on their expedition gear, also looked at the original fabric and the replica clothing to determine their thermal insulation value. The entire procedure needed to be completely non-destructive, which is why both the TCC and the PCRC specialists were approached rather than a regular testing house.

Derby - Vanessa Anderson, who reconstructed the garments as the research project for her MA in Performance Sportswear Design, sought suppliers who could match the specifications of the original silk, cotton and wool, and reconstructed most of his garments. John Angus, Programme Leader for Textiles in the Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology, knitted woollen garments including a thermal vest and puttees. Derby graduate Simon Young replicated Mallory's puttees.

In addition, the Mallory Project called upon specialist hand-knitter Joyce Meader to recreate a number of knitted items including three pairs of socks, a jumper and a cap comforter. Joyce uses historic patterns to hand-knit items for museums, re-enactors and for private commissions and has knitted for The National Army Museum Chelsea, Museum of Army Flying Middle Wallop and the Mountain Heritage Trust Mallory Collection. She also lectures on the History of the Commercially Printed Knitting Pattern and on Historical Military Hand Knitting. Her website is www.historicknit.co.uk.

Taken from here- http://www.derby.ac.uk/news/george-mallorys-everest-clothes-learning-from-the-past

Some pics from BBC-







Let's see if that works...

guest18

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2010, 10:57:13 PM »
Cool, thanks for that  :) does look considerably more stylish than the nylon blimp look  :D

squirrelciv

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2010, 09:32:48 AM »
Guy in the piccie has got some seriously dilated pupils going on there. Popped one too many smilies for my liking.   :o ;D
Live long, live well, live happy

guest7

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2010, 11:55:35 AM »
Professor Mary Rose appeared on Radio 4's 'Material World' talking about this and I have to say she made a very interesting subject sound dull, much to Quentin Cooper's obvious exasperation (although as usual he still managed to rescue some humour and interest from the situation).

If ever there was a subject crying out for a full National Geographic documentary this is it.

I've got a copy of 'Ghosts of Everest' here which details the expedition that recovered Mallory's artifacts. It has some very moving photos of his personal items, including an unpaid bill for some of his clothing; they won't be getting paid any time soon I suspect  :D

GC

guest18

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Re: Old fashioned kit proven better!
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2010, 06:14:42 PM »
..I've got a copy of 'Ghosts of Everest' here which details the expedition that recovered Mallory's artifacts. It has some very moving photos of his personal items, including an unpaid bill for some of his clothing; they won't be getting paid any time soon I suspect  :D

GC

Very "Major Martin"! But yes, often sad to see someones personal kit after they've passed on unexpectedly early.  :-\
Missed the programme, shame it didn't make good listening, it sounds a subject with the potential to be a fascinating programme.